Utopia - 2018 55' HH CATAMARANS
The Best of the Best
An excellent example of the exemplary HH Catamarans All Carbon Fiber HH55. “Utopia” has been meticulously maintained and is only for sale due to a change of the owner’s plans. Carefully built to exacting standards, the HH55 is a one-of-a-kind offering. “Utopia” brings the comfort of quality, the ingenuity of design, and the exhilarating delivery of speed. The ultimate in high end attention to detail coupled with the magic of a Morrelli and Melvin design make this boat something special. Consider this: All Carbon Fiber allows for light weight, ultra-strong and rigid construction. Imagine having a luxurious interior rivaled only by larger yachts, all the while moving at or above powerboat speeds, but completely under sail. Whether you’re planning a multi-year circumnavigation or simply coastal cruising with your closet friends and family, “Utopia” should be considered.
The demographic for this boat most likely will be the person or couple who have worked diligently for many years to get where they are now. They have researched and the boat market and desire for something very special. This is the actual boat you have seen in our videos on YouTube introducing the HH55 model. If you study the YouTube videos, you will know “Utopia.” There are more videos available which are not listed. Please inquire. This broker has spent a considerable amount of time aboard “Utopia.” Available to you is a complete discussion of all aspects of the form and function of what makes this boat a rare find.
"Utopia" was designed for Family and Guests in mind. There is the ability to accommodate both adult couples or children in four spacious cabins. There are also sleeping capabilities in the Salon and Cockpit. Please see the photographs and videos as they "speak a 1000 words." There's a place for everyone on "Utopia" to find their own coveted personal space.
The Aft Cabins are very light and open with queen size rectangular standard height berths. There are outer-hull-side windows and ports as well as a "picture" window aft. The "picture" will be a photograph you'll take through this window at your first anchorage. It may be a tropical beach, fog enveloped forested mountain, or the sunrise or sunset entering the cabin. It’s one of the many things that makes "Utopia,” well utopia.
The Forward Cabins also have hull side windows and an opening port. Comfortable like the aft cabins with a proper sized berth, they have more than sitting headroom, and a considerable amount of storage. You can sit on the edge of the berth and tie your shoes, just like home. You can stand, even if you are well over 6', anywhere in the forward cabin (and anywhere else in the boat for that matter.) For example, the Salon is 6'5".
Every cabin has its own forward facing hatch for full complete ventilation. There will be no clamoring for one cabin over another. They are equal in the breeze that enters them.
Each of the cabins have their own access to a comfortable head. To increase the utility and size of each head there is a "Jack and Jill" shower between them in each hull. The shower has a place for shampoo bottles and the sinks have shelf counters for items. Each head has a full medicine cabinet.
The Salon is something different. And different in a good way. "Utopia" has two settees. One is L- Shaped, the other is like a Sofa at home. You can sleep on either. The table by the sofa retracts with a high-quality stainless steel armature and has a cushion that allows the sofa to convert to a double. The sliding access doors can open nearly the entire salon to join the cockpit with matching table and exterior settees. The cabin sole, all one level, is Amtico in a Medium Walnut in color.
All the wood is actual teak with satin varnish. Cushions are in a cream colored Ultra Suede. There is nothing out of place on "Utopia" where you'd might pause or question. Everything is as it should be in a boat of this caliber.
In the Salon, the Navigation station is forward to port. It’s a work of art itself with actual teak veneer and solid trim. It’s quite the command center and great place for a high-end laptop.
The take-away here is that the living space is truly long-term live aboard capable. There are places for several people to be in their own "space" yet all the while being conducive to great conversation and interaction. This is important as you'll find that many boats appear segmented or congested. "Utopia" is at once open and personal at the same time.
The aft positioned Galley is also unique. It's more an Island "Kitchen" that boasts dual Vitrifrigo Refrigerators and Freezers, deep Double Sinks, proper Drawers, Shelves, and more. There's even an isolated trash bin with top and size access. Counter space on "Utopia" would be hard to match on similar sized boats.
The salon floor in "Utopia" is all one level. There are no "step-ups" or "step-downs." Woodwork has radius corners and smooth edges in traditional boat building tradition. A very rare find on modern catamarans and especially a performance catamaran.
The stove is a Force10 4-Burner with Oven and Broiler. The Force10 can easily be cleaned and serviced. It's a proven tool in the cruising sub-culture.
The counters have lips so plates do not slide off the edge. All the drawers are deep, and the lockers have shelves. "Utopia" has a good sized Microwave in its own cabinet. Counters are similar to a white Corian in appearance.
The Sink is a double arrangement with hot & cold pressure water and a pressure quad-filtered water tap as well. The counter next to the sink can be a place for food to be left on a tray for direct access from the cockpit. On "Utopia" a guest can be handed a sandwich right from the galley without having to enter the salon.
And what a Cockpit it is! With the open salon doors, the cockpit becomes the salon and the salon becomes the cockpit. There are several combinations of how you can adjust the mega-yacht quality sliding doors. Have just one section open for air or all the sections slid to the side for entertaining.
The cockpit sole is traditional solid teak strips over a carbon fiber cockpit sole. Its classic in appearance and reminiscent of yachts of yesteryear. The cockpit is home to a double settee to starboard that can be used for lounging or a daybed. To port is the matching high-gloss teak table (with sun cover) and settee. The cushions are in a soft Sunbrella. See the photo how this looks. Aft on the transom is a propane grill, ice maker, storage cabinets, and sink.
There is easy access to the transoms and if you'd like to keep the transoms secure there are removable painted carbon-fiber partitions for offshore work or simply to keep the dog from jumping in.
The Deck is one level with easy access forward and aft. Storing a bicycle in the forward locker?
Well, there's the space and ability to wheel it all the way aft to the dinghy. In fact, all of the hatches
are flush so you can ride around the deck. Stuntmen only. Not recommended by anyone. Except your guests under 6, of course.
The Stanchions are above standard height and have three lifelines each. You'll appreciate this. You can put a mesh on them easily if you have pets or the aforementioned 6-year-old.
The salon roof has lots of room to work the mainsail. This includes the aft end of the boom. Acrobatic manouvres are relegated to your trademark recreational cannonball, not sail-folding duty. It’s a welcome ability to be able to be anywhere on the deck and feel secure. The solar panels you see in the photographs are all built-in and effective, and have non-skid, allowing you to walk on them.
Traveling long distances requires “stuff.” On "Utopia," there are places to put it. Starting in the bows, there are cavernous bow lockers. The starboard side bow locker is accesses with a bomb-bay style hatch.
Store your sails in long bags, bicycles, scuba gear, inflatable kayaks, or SUP's. You name it. Bulky is good. Light is good.
Aft, in the cockpit, there are a variety of spaces. Under the starboard berth is enough space to store a large life-raft, additional gear, a propane locker, and more. To port, all the space under the settee is available to you. Aft, in the transom, under the traveler, are opening lockers for a variety of smaller items. You can also get creative with the spaces under the helm seats.
The interior has so many spaces for things - we created a storage map. Please inquire.
That's "Helms" with an "s." "Utopia" has two aft helm stations. This is a sailor's boat. Use either helm to be on the windward side to adjust and trim the sails. Use either helm to dock the boat. All lines are led aft or can be led aft. Visibility allows full forward views, all the while monitoring the cockpit. See the videos and photos for full details. Inquire for a video of the helm stations while raining and cold outside.
The helms are secure. They're well forward of the transom, can easily be enclosed, and are still "part of the action." That is, on that long day sail from Norman's to Anegada, you, as the helmsperson, can easily interact with everyone in the cockpit. And have the new sunburned sailor sit at the opposite helm and "drive" as you quietly correct their course with your stealthfully placed foot at your wheel.
The helms on "Utopia" are worth writing home about. They're great equally for long passages or short-handed docking.
Dinghys and Davits
Isn't it normal to have the dinghy listed under "Additional"? And davits - aren't they also a side item mentioned as an afterthought?
Well, not with the Dinghy and Davits on "Utopia." Custom built for the boat is a 14' Carbon Fiber Rigid (bottom) Inflatable Boat, or RIB for short. The tubes are Hypalon with a 45cm tube diameter. The hull is a Deep V with a 20 deg dead rise. The engine is a Yamaha F50. There is a Dinghy Cover and Chaps for sun protection.
It's said the dinghy is one of the guest's favorite things. Its utility goes beyond transport. Use it for fishing, water skiing, 20 to 30 mile excursions, or take 7 to 8 people to dinner in one go.
The Davits are made to accept the dinghy and hold it without the need for side straps. The dinghy is wedged on the specialized davits. That's important. There is no movement in a sea. The davits accommodate for the shape of the dinghy tubes fore and aft and side to side.
Each davit has one line and that lifts the dinghy with independent controls. The electric winches at the transom are used to do the grunt work. It's as easy to get the dinghy up and out of the water as it is to launch it. Your inclination will be to use the dinghy often as it’s not a chore to get it ready.
The Abbreviated List: Triple state of the art Chart Plotters, Advanced Broadband Radar, Redundant (like in two) Autopilots, VHF, AIS, Depth, Knot, and Wind, GPS. All B&G. All can link to a tablet or phone.
The Detailed List:
B&G Zeus3 touch screen displays to integrate radar/ chart overlay/ weather routing/ yacht systems/autopilot/ performance numbers
1x B&G ZC2 Zeus remote keypad
1x B&G H5000 Hercules performance base pack with GCD
1x B&G NAIS-500 Class B AIS system
1x B&G ZG100 GPS antenna, 10Hz
1x B&G vertical masthead unit pack
1x VMHU top bracket
1x B&G 4G radar broadband system
1x B&G H5000 analog expansion module
1x B&G H5000 3D motion sensor
1x B&G RC42N rate compass, NMEA2000
2x B&G DT800 active depth/temp 235kHz transducer
2x Hull housing type A, plastic, flush
2x B&G speed transducer flush, plastic, H-series
1x wind vane
Auto pilot system – two fully independent systems
1x B&G Hercules 5000 pilot controller
2x B&G H5000 pilot computer
Rudder reference unit, RF300
Communications base system
1x B&G V90 VHF w/handset and speaker
1x B&G H50 wireless handset
1x B&G NSPL-500 AIS/ VHF antenna splitter
1x Gam, combo VHF/ AIS antenna, SS whip
Iridium "GO" Sat Comm
Apple iPad Pro
HP Windows Laptop with systems interfacing software
This where you see the stereo listed, correct?
Entertainment on "Utopia" goes beyond just the things that turn on, turn up, or tune in. They're all part of the bigger picture of course. "Utopia" is set-up, as previously mentioned, with an enviable cockpit/salon combination. Within that combination are stand-alone entertainment components. The best example of this is during a boat show when two dozen people somehow get aboard at once. Five or six are in the galley, just like a house party. Another six or so are seated in the salon. And yet another half dozen enjoy the cockpit. And, of course, three or four are up on the bow.
How do you provide everyone with a background bed of music or moving images of a game or other visual imagery?
Onboard are (10) carefully positioned Bose speakers in 3 zones. There are three amps and dual
sub-woofers. In fact, the entire system is a Marine Home Entertainment System. In addition, there is a 40" complete Surround Sound TV that can face in any direction of the compass. The TV system is the real deal. An Apple TV receiver is on board as well as the ability to tie into the TV with a HDMI port from your computer or device.
True to the nature of the boat, "Utopia" is equipped with Endurance Carbon 3Di 760 Sails by North. If you are not familiar with that description, think "Aston Martin".
On the simple end they go up, they go down, and they reef or furl. On the more sophisticated end they're high-end equipment designed to be used in a performance manner and can be maximized by the tuned-in user. They're tough, have longevity, hold their shape, and allow the boat to do what it does.
Mainsail at 1302 sq. ft. in Pre-molded Medium Gray, 3-Reefs, and a 28% square top. The headboard has an RPG headboard lock system .
Staysail at 398 sq. ft, in Light Gray, Furling with an upgraded system (see Rigging) with UV Protection, The luff cable is from Future Fiber as it is the stay that holds the sail in place. This sail is self-tacking.
Overlapping Jib at 725 sq. ft. in Medium Gray, with Furler and UV Protection as it stays in place on the forestay.
Reacher at 1464 sq. ft in Darth Vader Black, a Furler also with a Future Fiber Luff Cable
Asymmetric A4 Spinnaker at 2626 sq. ft. in White and Blue Contender sail cloth SK150. The spinnaker has a snuffer or "sock".
The sail cover is Sunbrella in a Salle Blue. It has dual zippers and very easy to deploy.
Engines and Running gear
(2) Yanmar 4JH57 57hp, common-rail naturally aspirated ( non-turbo) diesels with SD60 saildrives. The engines have two Yanmar B25 Instrument panels each (one for each engine at each helm.) The throttles and gear controls are electronic and repeated at each helm. Each engine has an automatic air bleeding device with a primer pump installed. The engine and saildrives can share the same spec 15W-40 oil if desired.
3-blade folding props for minimum drag Gori Varifold with overdrive for fuel efficient passage making.
Manual engine room ventilation blower with 3” ventilation hoses
Custom composite engine silencer, muffler, and water lift with water separator, gas through underwing/ chamfer panel and water below waterline.
Reverso oil change pump and engine and generator oil.
(2) 300L/80 Gal polypropylene diesel fuel tanks with cleanout ports and appropriate baffles. Seller reports over a 700 mile range.
FilterBoss (Racor 500 filters) fuel and water separators with changeover valve for each fuel system.
Shut-off valve on fuel tanks, Vetus anti-spill and blow back arrester.
Fuel tank transfer from port to starboard and starboard to port.
Steering is from the dual helm stations with Carbon Fiber Steering Wheels. The steering mechanisms are designed for a high performance feedback. There is an emergency steering tiller and can be fitted to either hull. The Autopilot linear rams (one primary and one backup) have been upgraded to oversized for robust conditions.
The Propane system is located under the cockpit double settee (for the stove and oven) and also under the transom locker for the grill.
The key to a successful electrical system is to be intuitive. This has two levels. The first is to be intuitive to the operator, and the second is to be intuitive to the person servicing it. "Utopia" has an electrical system that is straight forward to understand. It has a menu driven system that once played-with indeed becomes intuitive. To the appropriate serviceperson the systems are well laid out and can be mapped simply by looking at it. Everything is accessible. See the video on "Systems".
On the AC side "Utopia" is set up as a 60 Hz 220V/110V North American Spec. Available is the protocol to make the boat worldwide universal to include 50Hz. The Victron Quatro 5000w Inverter Charger is worldwide universal. The Victron Autotransformer is also universal. See the "Systems" video for a full overview. AC outlets onboard are 110V.
On the DC side "Utopia" is a 24 volt and 12 volt boat. The batteries are (3) Mastervolt 180AH 24/5000i Lithium Ion Batteries with built in battery management. There is room for a fourth battery.
The engines (incl. generator) are powered by Mastervolt AGM 12 volt batteries. And as you would expect, there are 12 volt and USB outlets in appropriate locations throughout the boat.
All electrical devices and appliances are controlled from a C-Zone System with manual overrides. This system has proven to be highly successful and reliable.
Power Generation is accomplished in a multitude of manners. On top of the salon roof are Soliban Solar Panels with controllers with a potential output of 1.5kW. The Engines each have a high output 24 volt 110A 482 Series 3-Stage Regulated Mastervolt Alternator. The Generator is a variable speed Fisher Panda 15000i producing 12kW.
Shorepower is through a 25ft or 50ft (both onboard) Shorepower Cord to a water sealed Smart Plug inlet, a Galvanic Isolator, Circuit Breaker in a Weatherproof box and then through the Autotransformer. From there the shorepower is routed through the pass-through of the Inverter and onto the C-Zone distribution system. C-Zone functions are controlled from a dedicated panel at the Navigation Station or any of the B&G Multi-Function Displays on board.
All lamps and lights are LED. The cabins can be set for mood and have many options. All interior overhead lamps are dimmable. Please inquire. Exterior lighting includes the usual required navigation lights as well as (2) upward facing mast lights, (4) Trampoline lights, and (2) Davit Lights.
Hull & Construction
The Hull, it's Designer, and the Construction are what makes the HH55 the extraordinary.
Let's start with the designer, Morreli and Melvin. With a portfolio that includes the America's Cup campaigns in 1988, 2010, and 2013, huge record setting maxi-catamarans, and 20 boat of the year awards, including the HH55, the pedigree of "Utopia" is well founded and proven.
The Hull is a 4th generation design. Constructed of Infused Carbon Fiber and Epoxy with a thermo formed closed cell core. The expense of female moulds were taken in order to have minimum construction weight. The finished product is post cured in a giant oven to further increase strength. The longitudinal stringers are also Carbon Fiber as are the ring frames. There are watertight bulkheads forward and aft including a sacrificial "false" bow in case of an impact.
In addition, the composite floors are also Carbon Fiber skinned. In fact, in terms of stiffness, strength, and light weight, the boat is almost entirely Carbon Fiber.
Daggerboards and Rudders
The Daggerboards are "C" Shaped, Carbon Fiber with internal carbon webs. The boards have been load tested under extreme weights. Both boards have a "safety fence" at the top of the board to keep the daggerboard in place in the event of an "up" control line break. Both daggerboards have a lifting ring.
Carbon Fiber Rudders are housed in self aligning JEFA bearings in watertight tubes.
"Utopia" comes complete with a spare set of shallow draft rudders. These are mounted on racks in the starboard forward locker. The rudders on "Utopia" can be changed while the boat is in the water.
Mast, Boom, Longeron, & Rigging
Carbon Fiber mast by Southern Spars. It is a non-rotating mast painted in a two-part polyurethane high gloss paint in Black. The gooseneck is also carbon fiber and has a stainless steel pin. "Utopia" has pre-measured shrouds and does not use turnbuckles. The mast has a hydraulic ram to adjust rig tension. Halyards lead aft to the helm station. The boat is equipped with Halyard Locks for the Main Halyard, (3) Reefs, Working Jib Halyard, Staysail Halyard, and Reacher Halyard.
The Lazy Jacks are fixed. Once in place you may use the Topping Lift as a spare main halyard. A Cunningham is in place. The base of the sail track splits in two for easier sail handling when folding the Mainsail. The headboard of the sail can be detached to lower in the stack pack.
The Mast has an Ion Dispenser installed.
The Boom is V-Shaped to collect the sail and is also of Carbon Fiber. There are several features to the boom on "Utopia". Please inquire.
The Longeron is an autoclave (oven) baked all Carbon Fiber Pre-Preg Custom Shaped with a Tapered Section. The Pelican Striker is also a Carbon Section.
Standing Rigging includes: Custom aramid forestay with 1x furler for solent. Custom aramid lower (2) and cap (2) shrouds with loops to chain plates. Custom aramid diamond with integral turnbuckles. Custom aramid martingale to chain plates. Carbon chafe guards for cap shrouds (2) for diamonds (2). Aramid reacher torsional stay with furler. Aramid self-tacking staysail torsional stay with furler.
The Staysail has been upgraded to an Aramid (Kevlar) K49 Torsional Stay with a Karver Furler.
Running Rigging is all color coded. Nearly all lines lead aft, and those that do not (lock release for main) can be lead aft. Furling lines for the Reacher, Solent (or Overlapping Jib), and the Staysail all lead aft. Tack, cunningham and reef lines run aft. Solent, Staysail, and Main Sheets all run to both helms. A Mainsail Halyard Lock was added for additional control. The Aft Reacher has upgraded Ti64 Titanium Turning Block Padeyes.
Harken winches upgraded from standard Lewmars. There's only one winch onboard that is not Manual/Electric and that is the Pronto 4-Speed Forward sail Tack Downhaul Winch mounted on the Longeron. That's a winch you should keep manual. The other winches are all multiple speed with foot controls for hands free operation. (4) 2-Speed winches at the helms (two each), and (2) 3-Speed Reacher winches (also used for the davits.) There are "Winch Kill" buttons at each helm in multiple locations. One button stops every electric winch on board so you do not need to guess.
The Traveler is controlled from either Helm with an Antal Line Driver. The Daggerboards also have a Line Driver for push button daggerboard adjustment.
Throughout the boat you will find Antal, Harken, and Spinlok gear, Lewmar Flush and custom large opening Hatches. The stanchions are of composite, built higher than typical, and have a 3-row set of Spectra lifelines.
Tramp is attached with a Spectra Borderline and lashes.
Escape hatches are CE Rated and can be opened from the outside as well as the inside.
Salon windows are tinted toughened glass that look black from the outside during the day and bronze at night.
Docking and Anchoring
Docklines are all black as are the covers for the inflatable fenders and include (4) 50’ x 3/4” Mega Braid docklines with chafe protected eyes. (4) 30’ x 3/4” Mega Braid docklines with chafe protected eyes (6) 12”x36” & 2x 18”X60” inflatable fenders with covers.
(4) Nomen clip cleats, (6) stainless steel padeyes for sail control and spring lines
Anchor chains and ropes: 200 of 3/8" stainless steel chain with 75’ of nylon rope, 50' of 5/16” of stainless steel chain with 150’ of nylon rope and this includes an anchor bridle with shackle that clips onto the chain. And the anchor bridle has attachment points on inboard hull sides for easy reach. There are two sets of bridles on "Utopia." One for the anchor (longer) and the other (shorter) for a mooring ball.
Stainless steel anchor roller exit forward underwing with a salt and fresh water wash down in anchor locker. The line/chain on the Lewmar V5 Electric Windlass automatic gypsy is sized for chain and 8 strand nylon anchor rode. The windlass is under cover in the bridge deck anchor locker. The anchor is a Lewmar Stainless Steel Data" anchor size 40 kg. A spare anchor is mounted in the sail locker (port forward bow locker) and is a Foldable Fortress anchor size 15 kg.
Quick Brand Bow Thruster in the starboard hull with controls at the helm(s).
Plumbing and Tanks
There are eight fixed tanks aboard. Water is a total of 480L (126 gallon), 83L (22 gal) of hot water in engine and electrically heated Isotherm tanks. That makes a total of 563L (148 gal) water. This is refreshed by a Spectra Newport 700 Watermaker producing water at 110L (29gal) every hour. The water production capacity is such that "Utopia" is regularly washed down with freshwater.
The Holding Tanks are 130L (34gal) and can be pumped out through a macerator or from the deck vent.
Pressure water is redundant as there is a system for each hull. There is a wash down in the anchor locker, aft, and there is a hot & cold cockpit shower mounted in the starboard transom. The port transom has a raw water washdown.
The heads are Planus Arctic Freshwater and have a quick and quiet evacuation mechanism. Its quiet enough not to wake up the entire boat as some heads seem to do.
Ventilation, Heat, and A/C
Total Air Conditioning Capacity is 56,000 BTU divided among six zones. Each cabin has its own condenser and the salon has two. The Air-conditioning has a heat and dehumidify function as well. Each cabin has its own environmental controls.
Opening ports are on the side of the hull in the cabins and heads. All overhead hatches face forward including the aft cabins.
In the Salon, in addition to roof hatches, are (2) forward facing ports, and a vertically mounted center hatch behind the mast.
The Salon Doors slide open and allow the salon to be part of the cockpit. There is a "storm drain" between the salon and the cockpit with a teak grate over it.
There are (5) 7" 3-Speed mounted Fans installed strategically throughout the boat.
Five sets of foul weather gear. Gill brand, white with black trim. Excellent condition. Great for guests too who arrive short-handed. They're sharp looking kit.
Full Safety Package (8 man life raft, fully equipped ditch bag, two EPIRBS, Flare Kit, (4) Inflatable PFDs with AIS transponders, (6) standard PFDs, and a full First Aid Kit.
There are place settings for twelve people ready for use in the galley. All like new.
Various Kitchen Appliances
(10) Sets of bedding and towels.
Battery Operated Tools as well as a comprehensive Toolset
Spare Set of Lines
Spare Engine Parts
I have known this boat since delivery and have been updated on its whereabouts and goings-on since new. I have sailed it under each and every sail combination, motored, anchored, grabbed moorings, and been dockside. I have had the opportunity to sleep in the forward and aft cabins, dine at the interior and exterior tables, and help prepare meals in the galley. I've been aboard in rain, sun, hot, and cold. Even launch, drive, and retrieve the dinghy. All this, and I have seen the boat move close to 20 knots in average conditions. (The owner has frequently seen even more, there's a video listed here showing just that).
Let me relay my experience to you. The boat is a special one. There are not many like it. If you desire a world cruiser that is a step above nearly everything else in its class, "Utopia" may be just the right boat for you.
A priority build requirement when constructing "Utopia" was attention to the actual weight of the boat. It was opted to spend the time and effort to meet weight targets.
Dry Weight: 13, 900 kg or 30,644 lbs.
CE Design Lightships: 15,000 kg or 33,069 lbs.
Lightship with options and variations: 15,480 kg or 34,128 lbs.
The CE Design Max load is: 19,633 kg 43,000 lbs
In comparisons to other boat's published weights be aware that they may or may not be accurate or what particular weight is being referred to. The above Dry Weight number came from actual scales.